The Property Management Mastermind Show

The Property Management Mastermind Show and Property Management Productions was formed to provide information and products BY Property Managers FOR Property Managers looking to grow and run their business. The podcast show is an interview discussion conducted by Brad Larsen – a Property Manager in San Antonio, TX. In this Podcast show, Brad will interview some of the biggest and brightest stars in the Property Management industry to include National Association of Residential Property Management (NARPM) members, Leading Property Managers of Australia (LPMA) members, and key vendors in the property management industry with the goal of being able to gain insight for best practices, new trends, and exciting information to help you grow and run your business more successfully.
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Oct 11, 2017

Today’s show is sponsored by LeadSimple and Fourandahalf. Together, they’ve come up with one of the best conferences for property managers, called the PM Grow Summit. This event is laser-focused on growth strategies and brings together some remarkable thought leaders from around the country. I attended last year and was thoroughly impressed all around -- and that was just their first year! The next conference will be in San Diego in 2018, and I’ve already booked my spot. Go to to learn more, and enter promo code “Brad” to get a $100 discount on your ticket!

We’re also sponsored by Marc Cunningham of Grace Property Management. Marc has created some amazing products for property management companies, which we can say firsthand as we’ve implemented his systems here. Visit their website and try out their products! To get a 10% discount on any of Marc’s products, use the promo code “Brad”!

Today, I have the honor of being joined by the remarkable and knowledgeable Tom Sedlack. Tom is a longstanding NARPM member and instructor teaching cash flow analysis. I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to take his class, and found it incredibly valuable. If you want to experience his knowledge firsthand too, don’t miss out on his upcoming speech in Orlando at the NARPM National Convention!

In this episode, we’ll mostly talk about a separate business model that you may want to consider for your management company: HOA management. As Tom explains, he and his wife manage 20 HOA associations with a total of over 1,000 HOA doors. These are spread across two areas: the Twin Cities and Kansas City. (And yes, Tom will also touch on how he handles running a company in two locations.)

Throughout our conversation, we explore the details of HOA management. We’ll talk, for example, about how it’s different from standard property management, how Tom got started in working with HOAs, and what the process is for winning HOA clients. Tom also offers fantastic insight into the details of running this part of his company with recommendations about software, checklists, and much more.


Here’s where you can find Tom:

33rd Company

@33rdCompany on Twitter

33rd Company on YouTube

@33rdCompanyMN on Facebook

Tom Sedlack on LinkedIn


Show Notes

[02:37] - Tom starts things off by introducing himself, talking about his background, and explaining how he and his wife got into property management.

[04:12] - Is Tom running his two offices from a central location, or do they operate independently?

[05:24] - Tom discusses how he and his wife broke into the property management market in Kansas City after already having a business in the Twin Cities.

[08:03] - Tom explains that they knew they needed 40 to 50 doors in the Kansas City area to break even.

[09:57] - We hear about the software that Tom uses specifically for HOA management, and whether it’s different from general property management software.

[12:34] - Did Tom join a trade organization specifically for HOA management?

[15:59] - Tom discusses who is doing the actual in-office work of handling the HOA management side of the company.

[16:53] - What are some of the unique challenges in managing HOAs as opposed to single-family homes?

[18:16] - We hear about Tom’s company is getting leads, which Brad points out is step one. Tom then talks about whether he has a long-term goal in terms of door count.

[20:50] - Tom talks about the next step of the process, which involves talking to the HOA board members.

[24:33] - Tom discusses the challenges of getting people to switch from a developer’s default management system to his company.

[27:57] - We learn that Tom uses an incredibly detailed onboarding checklist to ensure they don’t miss anything.

[29:27] - Does Tom have any leads on where to get a checklist and a draft management agreement?

[31:19] - Tom talks us through some information about the profit potential for HOA management.

[34:08] - Tom’s company uses both flat-fee and percentage-based pricing, but it’s usually a fixed price based on the number of doors.

[34:54] - Brad requests a story about a case in which Tom walked into a bad situation and turned it around.

[37:20] - The average size of his HOA clients is around 50 doors, and so about 20 clients make up the 1000 HOA doors that Tom’s company manages.

[40:03] - What are the best techniques Tom has found to help agents learn about cash-flow analysis?

[42:09] - Tom talks about how he breaks down and illustrates numbers to his investors.

[46:46] - Brad and Tom discuss the fact that property managers are pretty much recession-proof.

[47:15] - What’s the coolest thing Tom has implemented in the past six to 12 months?

[49:15] - Tom shares where listeners can find him and learn more about what he does.

Links and Resources:

33rd Company

@33rdCompany on Twitter

33rd Company on YouTube

@33rdCompanyMN on Facebook

Tom Sedlack on LinkedIn



PM Grow Summit


Grace Property Management


Rent Manager

Seacoast Bank

Sep 27, 2017

Today’s show is sponsored by LeadSimple and Fourandahalf. Together, they’ve come up with one of the best conferences for property managers, called the PM Grow Summit. This event is laser-focused on growth strategies and brings together some remarkable thought leaders from around the country. I attended last year and was thoroughly impressed all around -- and that was just their first year! The next conference will be in San Diego in 2018, and I’ve already booked my spot. Go to to learn more, and enter promo code “Brad” to get a $100 discount on your ticket!

We’re also sponsored by Marc Cunningham of Grace Property Management. Marc has created some amazing products for property management companies, which we can say firsthand as we’ve implemented his systems here. Visit their website and try out their products! To get a 10% discount on any of Marc’s products, use the promo code “Brad”!

One question many of us struggle with regularly is that of service animals. For example, can a pit bull qualify as an assistance animal even though it may be considered dangerous? Can a twelve-foot python be an emotional support animal? What about a chicken, or a pig? Is it a reasonable accommodation to allow a blind tenant to keep a horse on the property if that is his or her primary mode of transportation?

Robert Brown, a local San Antonio attorney licensed here in Texas, joins me on the show today to talk about all this and much more. Before we go any further, let me just take a moment for a quick disclaimer: nothing in this episode should be considered legal advice. But it gives you a starting point for your research and decisions, and conversation points to touch on with your own attorney.

If you’ve ever wondered about questions related to reasonable accommodations for disabilities, service or emotional support animals, or how the process of having a claim filed against you works, tune into this episode. Robert is an expert whose services we use, so I can vouch for his ability to provide value-packed, insightful information!


Here’s where you can find Robert:

Robert Brown Law Firm

Office phone: 210-782-9111


Show Notes

[02:51] - Robert introduces himself. He explains what he does and that he specializes in representing landlords.

[04:05] - Brad asks Robert to define what a service animal is, then talks about an incident in which he couldn’t get a straight answer.

[06:28] - Robert explains that people with service animals may ask for either reasonable accommodation or reasonable modification. He clarifies what the difference is.

[08:27] - What scams are Robert seeing from tenants these days, and how can property managers protect themselves from these scams? Robert answers, then talks about how and when to ask for substantiation of a disability.

[13:38] - Robert discusses determining whether a request for modification is or is not “reasonable,” offering a colleague’s case as an example.

[16:25] - Robert’s suggestion is to have a dialogue about accommodations in writing instead of orally if possible.

[18:00] - We hear Robert’s recommendations on how to push back when you suspect someone’s requests might not be reasonable or justified.

[21:01] - Robert responds to an example of Brad’s about someone bringing in a giant snake and claiming it’s their emotional support animal.

[22:28] - Cats are one of the better emotional support animals, Robert explains. Pot-bellied pigs and chickens are other examples of possible emotional support animals.

[26:41] - Robert talks about the steps of having a claim filed against you, and the options for what to do if your tenant files a discrimination lawsuit.

[29:50] - What kind of insurance covers these sorts of issues?

[32:20] - After a short break, we come back to discuss options for what to do when there’s a case against you.

[34:00] - Brad brings up his first-ever fair housing claim, which occurred a few months ago. Robert talks about how he would work through a case and make a response.

[39:50] - Is there a no-brainer documentation situation in which Robert would always approve a service animal?

[42:15] - Brad jokes that one should never rent to attorneys or realtors. He then brings up a recent case of a new attorney applying and suggesting lease changes.

[45:04] - Robert shares a story of his own about applying for a place to live when he was in law school.

[47:03] - Robert talks about the ability to post negative reviews, which he explains isn’t the same as defamation. He then talks about how the law in question applies to landlords, tenants, and property managers.

[49:45] - What is Robert’s advice for what you should do if you get a bad review online? He and Brad discuss options, and point out that it’s vital to manage your online reviews in today’s world.

[56:18] - How can listeners reach Robert?


Links and Resources:

Robert Brown Law Firm

Robert’s office phone: 210-782-9111



PM Grow Summit


The Profitable Property Management Podcast with Jordan Muela

Property Management Podcast with Alex Osenenko

Grace Property Management

Sep 8, 2017

Today’s show is sponsored by LeadSimple and Fourandahalf. Together, they’ve come up with one of the best conferences for property managers, called the PM Grow Summit. This event is laser-focused on growth strategies and brings together some remarkable thought leaders from around the country. I attended last year and was thoroughly impressed all around -- and that was just their first year! The next conference will be in San Diego in 2018, and I’ve already booked my spot. Go to to learn more, and enter promo code “Brad” to get a $100 discount on your ticket!

We’re are also sponsored by Marc Cunningham of Grace Property Management. Marc has created some amazing products for property management companies, which we can say firsthand as we’ve implemented his systems here. Visit their website and try out their products! To get a 10% discount on any of Marc’s products, use the promo code “Brad”!
Today’s show is also sponsored by Virtually Incredible who provides tenant screening services, call center services, and video production services to property managers. You can visit them at

With hurricane season in full swing, I have a very timely interview for you. Today, I am talking to Pete Neubig and Steven Rozenberg from Empire Industries out of Houston. This interview is golden with lots of lessons learned on how to handle natural disasters. These lessons can apply to any property management company no matter where you are, and what natural disasters you may face.
Pete and Steve have both been on the show before and are old veterans when it comes to podcasting and talking about property management. They also feel as a company they have come out stronger. Today, they share how they managed 700 homes in the aftermath of Harvey. They share how they needed to act fast and be strategic with solving multiple problems. Then they share how they broke things down and created actionable items for each team member.
They share how they prepared the lines of communication in advance by creating one-way channels that could be used even during the storm and then organized their people into teams and groups to accomplish everything. They also remained helpful to everyone and shared communication through their channels while always remembering to put people first. They share their philosophies and strategic actions along with lessons learned through this catastrophic event.

Here’s where you can find Pete and Steve:
Empire Industries
Steve Rozenberg on LinkedIn
Empire Industries on Twitter
Empire Industries on Facebook

Show Notes

[02:31] Pete and Steve kick things off sharing how Houston is still hurting, but Empire as a company has grown through the experience.
[04:12] Pete shares how they managed to stay on top of things by having a plan and a great team.
[04:57] Empire manages 700 homes in the Houston area. That's 700 families and 700 potential owners.
[05:52] Steve shares how taking action and coming up with a strategic plan helped them to respond and break things down into actionable steps.
[08:35] They let owners and residents know how to get updates through their portal and Facebook to create a one-way line of communication.
[10:20] The first thing they did was make sure everyone on the team was okay, then they took stock of available resources.
[11:03] Everyone at the company was assigned an emergency job. They used conferences calls twice a day to create an action plan. They assigned project managers to attend the calls to cut down on communication time.
[13:29] They used a spreadsheet to keep track of each property. They walked their vacant units to make sure they were rent ready because of the Houston housing shortage.
[16:08] Steve utilized social media for communication. They wanted to let the owners know that their properties were alright. He did a Facebook Live video every day.
[17:30] Steve shared all of the information he found out from FEMA and other agencies and then became a one-stop shop for tenants, landlords, and everyone. They combined forces and became a social media point of contact.
[19:52] They also created a Hurricane Harvey landing page on their website that answers all kinds of emergency and hurricane questions.
[20:54] They also filmed a public service announcement to help people find information and properties.
[21:48] Using a voice over IP phone system. These phones aren't down like a flooded landline would be.
[23:25] What happens when a home gets flooded out. If the house is uninhabitable, the tenant can break the lease.
[24:31] They made a company policy that residents who have lost everything get their security deposit back.
[25:06] How property management is a people business at the end of the day.
[26:11] Helping tenants by getting repairs done right away.
[26:38] Using Facebook groups for communication with owners and tenants.
[27:30] Creating expectations to eliminate too many phone calls.
[28:29] It's important to create the job roles in advance before emergencies happen. Also, have a list of emergency vendors and contractors.
[29:31] Treat people well, value relationships, and be calm, structured and organized.
[30:17] Trusting your current vendors instead of onboarding new people who come into town for the disaster.
[30:57] They have had about 350 homes that have reported issues.
[32:32] They had a vendor who waded through water to light a pilot light and didn't charge for it. They also found a new house for a family that lost everything and they donated things to help the family.
[35:12] The best thing a property manager can do for the community is doing their job.
[36:28] How Pete ended up adopting a dog with a broken leg.
[37:54] They waived late fees this month and think their new leases will make up for lost rent from people who have damaged homes. They have estimated to collect about 90% of rent this month.
[40:33] Pete shares a story about a homeowner and a tenant who lost everything. The owner didn't have a lot of compassion and is no longer a client.
[42:48] Problems that happen when owners bypass the property managers, and how it's better to worry about people, not property.

Links and Resources:

Jean Storms Property Management Manual
Google Hangouts
Uber Conference
Facebook Live
Google Calendar
Citizen Home Solutions

Sep 6, 2017

Today’s show is sponsored by LeadSimple and Fourandahalf. Together, they’ve come up with one of the best conferences for property managers, called the PM Grow Summit. This event is laser-focused on growth strategies and brings together some remarkable thought leaders from around the country. I attended last year and was thoroughly impressed all around -- and that was just their first year! The next conference will be in San Diego in 2018, and I’ve already booked my spot. Go to to learn more, and enter promo code “Brad” to get a $100 discount on your ticket!

We’re also sponsored by Marc Cunningham of Grace Property Management. Marc has created some amazing products for property management companies, which we can say firsthand as we’ve implemented his systems here. Visit their website and try out their products! To get a 10% discount on any of Marc’s products, use the promo code “Brad”!

I know a lot of you have been curious about automating lock boxes and the tenant viewing process, so I’ve brought on some experts to talk about the subjects! Joining me today are James Barrett and Calvin Davis from Tenant Turner, a company I use myself and have been very satisfied with. James is the Head of Business Development at Tenant Turner, while Calvin is the Sales Director.

In our conversation today, James and Calvin will explain in detail what Tenant Turner does, how it can function in your business by providing solutions for some of the unaccompanied showing techniques you may want to use, and how they can save (and make) you money. If you’re convinced after listening to them, sign up for their services using the promo code “Brad” to get a goodie package!

James and Calvin will also talk in depth about providing self-access for prospective tenants, automating some scheduling activities, the nitty gritty of using automated lock boxes for viewings, and much more. This is a value-packed episode that will answer lots of questions and provide insight into the future of tenant showings, so listen in!


Here’s where you can find James and Calvin:

Calvin Davis on LinkedIn

James Barrett on LinkedIn

@TenantTurner on Twitter


Show Notes

[02:24] - James and Calvin start the episode off by introducing themselves.

[03:16] - We hear the short version of what Tenant Turner can do for someone, and how it can save time.

[03:54] - Brad steps in to share his experiences, trials, and tribulations with various vendors he has worked with. He then mentions how he ended up with Tenant Turner.

[06:54] - We learn more about how the Tenant Turner process can work in any market, and that one of the company’s advantages is that it has in-house developers.

[08:47] - Brad shares the story of how Tenant Turner worked with him to meet his needs regarding pets.

[10:10] - Every market is a little bit different, but there are themes. Some markets that you might expect to be very different are in fact similar.

[11:12] - One of the huge benefits of Tenant Turner is repurposing the people you’ve hired, and automating more tasks to let employees accomplish more.

[12:36] - Brad spends some time digging into why these sorts of processes can save time and money for property managers.

[14:54] - What are some best practices tied into the things that Brad, James, and Calvin have been talking about? As part of the answer, we hear about the leasing line being an integrated component.

[16:26] - There are two critical things that help Tenant Turner and VirtuallyinCredible work together so well.

[17:15] - We learn about Tenant Turner’s impressive hours, which are a great selling point.

[19:19] - James and Calvin have been happy with the advanced marketing platform from FreeRentalSite.

[20:25] - We hear about the various ways available to let people into a property.

[21:22] - Brad brings up the process involved in a potential tenant viewing a home, and brings up the question of whether to get ID before allowing tenants to self-access the property.

[23:33] - Brad offers James and Calvin some feedback from his biggest investor, who mentioned that he would like to see a credit card being charged but refunded to the applicant after they leave feedback.

[25:38] - We move onto the next portion of the lifecycle of the leasing process, with the topic of lock-box best practices.

[26:23] - Tenant Turner needs to be used as an electronic handshake for a prospective applicant to meet an agent.

[28:49] - As a leasing agent, Brad would recommend getting in touch by text, email or phone before driving across town to meet a potential tenant.

[30:13] - We return to the topic of lock boxes, and hear James and Calvin’s thoughts on Codebox.

[31:52] - Calvin talks about how Tenant Turner and Codebox have worked to build solutions together.

[33:01] - Are there any other similar lock box solutions out there?

[34:12] - We move onto wireless and Bluetooth options. Brad thinks that this will become increasingly prevalent. He, James, and Calvin then talk about their predictions for when this will become the norm.

[36:53] - Do James and Calvin see this changing technology as more of a disruptor or an aide within the industry?

[39:57] - Calvin suggests that the best way to get in touch is to go to For the promo version, go to!

[40:47] - James talks about the benefits of ordering code boxes directly from Tenant Turner.


Links and Resources:

Calvin Davis on LinkedIn

James Barrett on LinkedIn

@TenantTurner on Twitter



PM Grow Summit

Grace Property Management






Aug 30, 2017

Today’s show is sponsored by LeadSimple and Fourandahalf. Together, they’ve come up with one of the best conferences for property managers, called the PM Grow Summit. This event is laser-focused on growth strategies and brings together some remarkable thought leaders from around the country. I attended last year and was thoroughly impressed all around -- and that was just their first year! The next conference will be in San Diego in 2018, and I’ve already booked my spot. Go to to learn more, and enter promo code “Brad” to get a $100 discount on your ticket!

We’re also sponsored by Marc Cunningham of Grace Property Management. Marc has created some amazing products for property management companies, which we can say firsthand as we’ve implemented his systems here. Visit their website and try out their products! To get a 10% discount on any of Marc’s products, use the promo code “Brad”!

I have a particularly remarkable guest on the show for you today. Greg Doering is the Regional Vice President for NARPM in the Central Region, which has 10 chapters across more than a dozen states. He’s also the owner and founder of GDAA Property Management, located in the North Austin (specifically Round Rock) area.

Since Greg has been a NARPM member for around a decade, he knew the ins and outs of the organization even before he became Regional Vice President. If you’ve listened to this show before, you’ve probably heard about NARPM at least in passing, but this episode is your opportunity to learn about the remarkable organization in depth from this long-time member who has ascended its ranks!

Greg will talk about some of the ways to get involved with the leadership of NARPM, including sharing his own story. He also describes the benefits that can come from helping to lead NARPM (which is a volunteer rather than a paid position). Some of these benefits, as he’ll point out, aren’t limited to the organization’s leadership.

With that said, we don’t only talk about NARPM. Greg describes what it’s like to work with his brother Jeff, who joined the company recently. We clear up some misconceptions about virtual assistants. Greg describes some of the changes and innovations that he’s seen in the property management industry, and finishes things off with an inspirational message about why change is a good thing.


Here’s where you can find Greg:

GDAA Property Management

Greg Doering on LinkedIn


Show Notes

[02:57] - Greg starts things off by introducing himself and telling listeners a bit about what he does.

[03:45] - Brad explains some of the reasons that he invited Greg onto the show.

[04:36] - Right now, the biggest challenge that Greg is facing with his company is staffing. He describes some of the specific difficulties.

[06:04] - What have Greg’s plans for growth been this year? He answers, then discusses how the company has transitioned into one in which people have specific tasks and roles, instead of doing everything.

[09:58] - Greg describes the single most important lesson that he learned during his company’s growth and transition period.

[11:01] - Brad takes a moment to make sure listeners understand the acronyms that Greg has been using.

[12:24] - What advice would Greg give someone working their way up through the ranks of NARPM?

[14:02] - Greg discusses how the auditing system works after you’ve submitted your packet and checklist.

[15:59] - What are some of the innovations that Greg has seen, or done himself, in the last six months or so?

[17:17] - Brad steps in to clarify some common misconceptions about virtual assistants.

[18:47] - Greg discusses the dynamic involved with his brother, Jeff, recently entering the business.

[21:12] - The reality of working with his brother is that they still enjoy each other’s company despite seeing each other at work and many weekends, Greg explains.

[22:46] - Greg talks us through his ascent through the ranks of NARPM, of which he’s been a member for around a decade.

[24:29] - Greg goes into more depth about the process of becoming a regional leader in NARPM.

[25:53] - We learn what Greg’s current role in NARPM entails, and how long the term lasts.

[27:05] - Greg discusses what he envisions as where he’s going and what he hopes to do by the end of his two-year term. He and Brad then talk about the rapid changes in the industry over the last few years.

[30:00] - Last year, Greg had less than 20% of the inventory condition forms returned, he reveals.

[31:08] - What are the benefits of being involved in the leadership of NARPM, since it’s a volunteer position?

[33:30] - Greg reveals that NARPM’s major events are about to go through some big changes, and offers some insight into the types of changes to expect.

[35:35] - The majority of the vendors that Greg uses regularly have all come from the NARPM trade show.

[36:14] - The industry is getting ready to change, Greg explains, and he’s excited because change creates opportunity.


Links and Resources:

GDAA Property Management

Greg Doering on LinkedIn



PM Grow Summit




NARPM National Conference

Broker/Owner Conference

Tony Robbins

Robert Kiyosaki

Aug 16, 2017

Today’s show is sponsored by LeadSimple and Fourandahalf. Together, they’ve come up with one of the best conferences for property managers, called the PM Grow Summit. This event is laser-focused on growth strategies and brings together some remarkable thought leaders from around the country. I attended last year and was thoroughly impressed all around -- and that was just their first year! The next conference will be in San Diego in 2018, and I’ve already booked my spot. Go to to learn more, and enter promo code “Brad” to get a $100 discount on your ticket!


We’re also sponsored by Marc Cunningham of Grace Property Management. Marc has created some amazing products for property management companies, which we can say firsthand as we’ve implemented his systems here. Visit their website and try out their products! To get a 10% discount on any of Marc’s products, use the promo code “Brad”!


On the show today, I’m joined by Angela Gonzales and Erin Landis from Moxie Property Management out of Fort Worth (near the Dallas, Texas area). Erin and Angela started the company just a couple years ago, so it’s still in its infancy time-wise, but they’ve already accomplished some remarkable things. As they put it, the company actually operates in dog years!


One of the reasons I wanted to have Angela and Erin on the show is that they’re doing some different things that you might not have seen in other property management companies. They don’t hesitate to think outside the box, as you’ll hear in our conversation today. For example, part of Moxie involves doing consulting work for other companies and helping them manage their properties, meaning that they’re far more than just a strict property management company.


In addition to talking about their consulting services and how they seamlessly blend these with their own property management, Erin and Angela discuss topics such as how they’ve grown their company so quickly, how they got started, why they realized they don’t need a third partner, their roles in NARPM, and the tools they use to stay in communication with each other, their clients, and their tenants.


Here’s where you can find Angela and Erin:

Moxie Property Management

Angela Gonzales on the Greater Fort Worth Association of REALTORS

Angela Gonzales on LinkedIn

Angela Gonzales on Facebook

Erin Landis on Facebook

Erin Landis on LinkedIn

Moxie Property Management on Facebook


Show Notes


[02:36] - Erin and Angela start things off by introducing themselves.

[03:06] - We hear about how Moxie has grown so large in such a relatively short time, with Angela explaining how she and Erin met and got started.
[06:52] - What were some of the challenges that Erin and Angela came upon when they decided to step out and doing everything themselves?

[08:06] - Erin is doing some coaching for AppFolio soon, partly because she has been using the software since 2009. Angela then talks about how difficult the business would be to run without Erin on the financial side.

[10:03] - Brad shifts to a tangent about something he learned on the NARPM listserv about full-month accounting. He, Angela, and Erin then discuss how this type of accounting works along with its pros and cons.

[14:16] - Angela discusses the consulting side of the business.

[16:15] - The places we’ve been hearing about are in outlier areas, we learn, with Angela describing what they do as a “if you build it, they will come” scenario.

[17:26] - We take a deeper dive into the consultancy side of Moxie, learning what exactly that entails and how that side functions.

[19:40] - Angela and Erin use Evernote, we learn. It’s also helpful for communicating with their clients.

[20:27] - We hear about the division of labor at Moxie.

[22:45] - Part of hiring really great people is that they have ambition above the position they’re hired at.

[24:04] - Erin explains more about the details of how their consultancy works, and the ways in which it was like entering into a marriage.

[25:51] - Brad dives into the topic of the service items offered by Moxie. We hear about what it takes to add a consulting aspect to your property management business.

[27:35] - Erin points out that a big part of what they do is cleaning up old accounting, which is something they could take nationwide.

[30:04] - A lot of what Erin does is just auditing what a company has done up until now, she explains.

[31:21] - Brad is developing an annual business health report.

[34:19] - It’s not so much that good members of NARPM are perfect so much as that many others do lots of things wrong, Brad points out.

[35:52] - If Angela and Erin could do everything all over again with Moxie, what would they do differently the second time around?

[39:08] - Erin is the treasurer of the greater Fort Worth area NARPM branch, and Angela is working with the organization on the state level. Erin and Angela then discuss work-life balance and the experience of having careers as women.

[42:32] - While Angela’s son is a teenager now, Erin’s family is younger. She describes what it’s like to work from home under these circumstances.

[44:30] - Brad talks about his “good idea fairy” concept, then shares a cool concept he has recently implemented with listeners.

[46:49] - Moxie has been using Rently for almost two years now, and have been finding that it results in better tenants overall.

[49:24] - We learn that Brad got rid of his dropbox when he moved to the new office.

[50:09] - Erin talks about how one of their older residents (who is over 80 years old) took some extra coaching to make electronic payments instead of dropping off a money order or other paper payment.

[52:01] - Brad discusses the role of virtual assistants and how it’s changing in the industry as time goes on.

[52:49] - Do Angela and Erin have any other “good idea fairies” that they want to share with the audience?

[54:56] - Moxie’s application fees are nonrefundable, but they are transferrable to other properties, we learn.

[56:38] - The mortgage industry took in 36% fewer applications for mortgages this year than last year, Brad reveals. This means that more people are going to be renting.


Links and Resources:


Moxie Property Management

Angela Gonzales on the Greater Fort Worth Association of REALTORS

Angela Gonzales on LinkedIn

Angela Gonzales on Facebook

Erin Landis on Facebook

Erin Landis on LinkedIn

Moxie Property Management on Facebook



PM Grow Summit






Bob Walters

Leading Property Managers of Australia

Tenant Turner


Aug 2, 2017

Today’s show is sponsored by Marc Cunningham of Grace Property Management. Marc has created some amazing products for property management companies, which we can say firsthand as we’ve implemented his systems here. Visit their website and try out their products! To get a 10% discount on any of Marc’s products, use the promo code “Brad”!

We’re also sponsored by LeadSimple and Fourandahalf. Together, they’ve come up with one of the best conferences for property managers, called the PM Grow Summit. This event is laser-focused on growth strategies and brings together some remarkable thought leaders from around the country. I attended last year and was thoroughly impressed all around -- and that was just their first year! The next conference will be in San Diego in 2018, and I’ve already booked my spot. Go to to learn more, and enter promo code “Brad” to get a $100 discount on your ticket!


That description of the upcoming conference is a perfect introduction to today’s two guests, Alex Osenenko and Jordan Muela. Together, they represent the two companies coming together to put on the summit, with Alex coming from Fourandahalf and Jordan coming from Lead Simple.


Of course we’ll talk about the summit in depth, with Alex and Jordan going over some of the remarkable speakers who will be attending, talking about the venue, and explaining why the weather alone should be a persuasive reason to attend!


Before that, though, we talk about many other topics relevant to anyone in the property management industry. We start off with a discussion of LeadSimple and its value for property managers in terms of efficiency, then cover various recent and upcoming trends within the industry. We address fee maximization and discuss the fact that customers are increasingly happy to do their showings themselves. Tune in for all this and much more with these two influencers in the property management world!


Here’s where you can find Alex and Jordan:

Alex Osenenko on LinkedIn

Alex Osenenko at Fourandahalf

Alex Osenenko on Facebook

@PMGrowSummit on Twitter

Jordan Muela on LinkedIn

@ManageMyProperT on Twitter


Show Notes


[02:56] - Alex gives us a quick intro to who he is and what he does.

[05:23] - Brad chimes in to tell a quick story about his first attempts to implement LeadSimple, and his return to it later.

[06:02] - Jordan tells us about who he is and what he does, explaining that he’s the CEO of LeadSimple.

[06:59] - One of the things that Brad likes about LeadSimple is that it prompts you with a list, allowing his staff to work straight off that list every day.

[09:36] - We hear a reminder that the consumer has different criteria than we have as experts in the property management industry. We also get advice on what to do once someone requests the analysis that Brad has just been talking about.

[12:41] - Brad explains that the part of his website that talks about free market estimates shows the graphic that people are going to get, which improves his capture rate.

[15:30] - We learn about how inbound call tracking and texting can function within the process that Brad, Alex, and Jordan have been talking about.

[16:52] - Brad shifts us to different trends, bringing up the topic of fee maximization.

[18:07] - Alex has been thinking a lot about fee maximization lately, he reveals, and shares his thoughts and perspective on the topic.

[19:49] - How does Brad set his pricing? He answers, and then offers a tip to listeners about using a flat-fee, tiered pricing system instead of percentages.

[21:33] - Brad steers Alex and Jordan to talk about the conditioning of customer expectations in terms of not needing to talk to anybody and have privacy.
[25:33] - Does Brad know offhand how many states what he’s been describing about co-brokering is relevant for?

[26:32] - Alex points out that the one-star reviews that every property manager gets are from tenants who never got a showing.

[28:00] - Brad admits that a lot of property managers, including himself sometimes, are very hesitant to implement things.

[30:38] - You’re often competing against the status quo, Jordan explains.

[32:17] - Brad transitions to talking about PM Grow Summit, offering Alex the opportunity to explain why this is such a valuable event and resource for property managers.

[36:07] - We hear about Brad’s personal experience at last year’s PM Grow Summit, in terms of both having a great time and making valuable connections with people he still speaks with today.

[37:30] - Alex and Jordan spend a huge amount of time vetting and interviewing potential speakers for the summit.

[39:06] - We hear more about the personal development aspect of the summit.

[41:46] - The venue for the summit is the US Grant Hotel in sunny San Diego, which should be a pleasant relief in terms of temperature in January!

[43:40] - We learn about the impressive caliber of speakers who will be present at the summit, with Alex and Jordan listing a few of the most noteworthy speakers and talking about their qualifications and areas of expertise.

[53:13] - Where can listeners learn more about the PM Grow Summit? At for the upcoming event, or at for last year’s event.


Links and Resources:

Alex Osenenko on LinkedIn

Alex Osenenko at Fourandahalf

Alex Osenenko on Facebook

@PMGrowSummit on Twitter

Jordan Muela on LinkedIn

@ManageMyProperT on Twitter



PM Grow Summit



Tony Robbins

Robert Kiyosaki

US Grant Hotel

PM Grow Summit 2017

Jul 19, 2017

Today’s show is sponsored by Marc Cunningham of Grace Property Management. Marc has created some amazing products for property management companies, which we can say firsthand as we’ve implemented his systems here. Visit their website and try out their products! To get a 10% discount on any of Marc’s products, use the promo code “Brad”!

My guest on this episode is the remarkable Dave Borden, who was nice enough to come to town and go over some information on marketing for property managers. He’s so full of information and great advice, though, that we decided to split the episode into two parts! This is part 2 of 2; part 1 aired last week.

This part is all about online best practices and industry trends. Dave and I dig deeply into how to do well online. We discuss what kind of domain name is ideal, as well as when you should (and, just as importantly, when you shouldn’t) use redirects to bring customers to your site. We also talk about content, with Dave giving great information on the minimum number of words you should have on certain pages and offering some suggestions for where to get ideas for what to write about.

Dave and I then move on to talking about the sometimes complicated relationship between property managers and owners. We discuss ways to handle the question of who’s in charge of deciding when to fix things and how much to spend on them. We also talk quite a bit about pricing models and attracting the right owners.

If you haven’t heard about Dave’s own product, Rent Screener. This is an absolutely invaluable tool for property managers, and I highly recommend you try it out if you aren’t already using it! Best of all, Dave is generously offering a 10% discount to listeners of this podcast. Tune in to learn how to get your discount!


Here’s where you can find Dave:

David Borden on LinkedIn


Show Notes

[02:24] - Dave begins by talking about domain names, explaining that many people don’t take certain important things into account when choosing one.

[04:31] - We hear some words of caution for people who are already doing well with an existing URL but are considering switching to a new domain.

[05:59] - Should you buy multiple other exact match domains and redirect them to your main domain? Dave says no, and explains why.

[08:16] - Brad brings up a story that Dave told him yesterday, so Dave recounts the story for the audience. He then draws out the lesson from this to explain how to best appear in search results.

[10:08] - Brad talks about diluting your brand, offering an example to illustrate what he means. Dave then offers his own advice on the topic.

[12:40] - We learn about windshield time, with Brad explaining how he reduces the need for his employees to drive across town to work for a couple minutes.

[14:03] - Dave talks about content, revealing the magic number of words to have on your property management page.

[17:12] - Brad suggests becoming a full-disclosure company on your site, then brings up the pricing model that he uses. He and Dave then discuss this before Dave returns to talking about ranking well in Google by having at least 2,500 words of content on their landing page.

[21:20] - Every conversation you have with an owner could be a blog post, Dave points out.

[22:00] - Brad points out that there’s a larger mindset in society that people want to have all their information upfront, tying this into his pricing system. He and Dave then talk about how your pricing brings in the type of owner you want.

[26:16] - Brad’s multiple property owner agreement is a great way to encourage people to buy another investment property Dave then points out that you may also be able to get a commission for helping them to buy this additional home.

[29:03] - Dave brings up something he’s seen property managers deal with: the question of who’s in charge (the property manager or the owner).

[32:02] - Brad brings up a side story that happened recently, then he and Dave further discuss the issue of making fixes to the property and when to consult the owner first.

[35:04] - Dave talks about his tenant screening product, which is called Rent Screener

[38:02] - Transunion has made a commitment to the tenant screening industry, Dave explains, then talks more about Transunion’s process and how to use its scores in screening tenants.

[40:44] - Brad is now pushing into an unaccompanied vacant home showing situation. Dave then elaborates on what Brad has been saying about this topic, explaining how much time it can save.

[45:47] - Dave talks about how to reach him and how to get a 10% discount on anything you order through his company.

[47:25] - Dave takes a moment to rave about how great his team is, and to emphasize how much he cares about doing right by his customers.


Links and Resources:

David Borden on LinkedIn

Rent Screener

Exact match domain

301 redirect

Jul 5, 2017

Today’s show is sponsored by Marc Cunningham of Grace Property Management. Marc has created some amazing products for property management companies, which we can say firsthand as we’ve implemented his systems here. Visit their website and try out their products! To get a 10% discount on any of Marc’s products, use the promo code “Brad”!

My guest on this episode is the remarkable Dave Borden, who was nice enough to come to town and go over some information on marketing for property managers. He’s so full of information and great advice, though, that we decided to split the episode into two parts! This is part 1 of 2; part 2 will be available next week.

This part is all about the must-haves of online marketing for property managers and property management companies. This is absolutely Dave’s area of expertise, as his company services a thousand management companies nationwide, covering a total of 300,000 to 400,000 units. His skill at what he does is revealed by his company’s strikingly low cancellation rate; they’ve only had 30 companies stop using their services. 

In this part of our conversation, Dave spends some time discussing the broad strokes of a successful marketing strategy, including the various steps to take depending on what your goals are. For example, he recommends starting with a great website. If that doesn’t get you where you want to be, you can move on to a social media strategy. If that, too, doesn’t achieve enough success, the next step is a content marketing strategy with videos.

As you may have inferred from this, Dave is a proponent of taking a measured approach. This is reflected throughout the conversation in his deliberate, specific insight and advice. In short, if you’re interested in learning how to go about marketing online the right way, tune in to this episode and the one coming next week!


Here’s where you can find Dave:

David Borden on LinkedIn


Show Notes

[02:24] - Dave introduces himself briefly, explaining why he’s on the show. He then explains what his company does.

[05:00] - Brad explains where today’s conversation with Dave stems from. Dave then talks about the first question he asks companies who want to work with him, and talks about the importance of a good website.

[08:42] - We learn about the importance of being able to capture a lead in a pay-per-click campaign. Dave then lists a few places where you can create a website for free.

[10:42] - Dave lists the three elements that go into SEO: relevance, usage data, and domain authority.

[13:09] - Dave returns to the topic of establishing a goal, explaining how this relates to SEO and specifically usage data.

[16:09] - Brad takes a moment to dig into what Dave has been saying about video, emphasizing how important (and powerful) a video strategy can be.

[17:58] - We learn about using Facebook for marketing purposes as a property management company. This is part of the basic social media strategy that Dave recommends, and he walks listeners through some best practices for using Facebook successfully.

[21:56] - Brad draws out what Dave said a moment ago about putting homes on Facebook, and Dave points out that this advice is only good if you’re interactive with it.

[23:42] - You can buy likes on Facebook, Dave explains, or boost a post. Brad shares his own experience with doing this.

[25:48] - Dave reiterates that he’s here because Brad is the poster child for property management marketing.

[26:35] - We hear more about Dave’s advance marketing platform.

[28:26] - Brad adds his two cents, recommending the automated rental analysis Dave has been talking about to anyone (except people in his local area!). He explains more about how it works.

[30:14] - Dave talks us through the three parts of his process.

[33:13] - Brad and Dave talk about the possible discrepancies in automatic estimates, and why these can potentially be good things.

[34:34] - We hear the difference in number of properties that Brad signed up last year compared to this year, now that he’s using the product that Dave has been talking about.

[37:50] - Dave begins to offer some advice on the marketing strategy with video, then shifts to talking about companies that are successful. He then talks about the automated system in more depth.

[40:45] - We come back to the topic of videos, with Brad talking about the advanced marketing platform widget.

[41:46] - Dave discusses having a content strategy.

[42:36] - Brad offers a thought for videos involving having them automatically transcribed for viewers on Facebook with the sound off. He and Dave then discuss various strategies for videos and marketing.

[45:08] - Brad uses a service called Virtually Incredible; he explains here what they do for him. Dave then raves about the company.

[48:12] - If someone watches your home listing video all the way through, it gives you a lot of SEO credit for the view.

[49:49] - What you need to do depends on your goals and your market, Dave explains. This means your strategy will be very different depending on those two factors.


Links and Resources:

David Borden on LinkedIn




Google Plus


Four and a Half


Virtually Incredible

Todd Breen

Jun 28, 2017

Today’s show is sponsored by Marc Cunningham of Grace Property Management. Marc has created some amazing products for property management companies, which we can say firsthand as we’ve implemented his systems here. Visit their website and try out their products! To get a 10% discount on any of Marc’s products, use the promo code “Brad”!

Don’t miss this insightful and value-packed conversation with James Alderson from OnSight PROS, an inspection company based in Texas but with locations in 14 cities in 7 states. We use them for third-party inspections, which (as we discuss in this episode) offer neutrality and reassurance when it comes to issues such as security deposits.

James isn’t only the founder of OnSight PROS; he and his wife are also property managers in the San Antonio, Texas area. In fact, James started OnSight PROS to fill a need of his own within his property management company. It wasn’t originally meant to be a business; James just wanted to get inspections off his plate. The company’s services were so in-demand, though, that it has now blossomed across the country.

In this conversation, James and I talk about various aspects of inspections. We explore why they’re so important, and several reasons that it’s better to have them done by a third-party company than to do them in-house (which we temporarily tried before returning to using OnSight PROS). James and I go into a fair amount of detail about using OnSight PROS for renewals and periodic inspections, discussing why it’s so important to do these inspections properly.

Of course, we all want to know how much things cost, so we talk about that (and about how to defer these costs to the tenant or owner). We offer some advice and tips on what to do if you don’t yet have a branch of OnSight PROS near you. Finally, we also spend a few fun minutes discussing technology and how we anticipate it will impact the property inspection industry in the relatively near future.


Here’s where you can find James:

Alderson Properties

James Alderson on LinkedIn


Show Notes

[02:07] - James gives us a quick intro into who he is and what he does, explaining how OnSight PROS got started.

[03:23] - Brad steps in for a moment to briefly explain exactly what OnSight PROS does. He then explains his company’s process as it relates to OnSight PROS. James then points out that they prefer vacant properties, or else set up appointments with tenants.

[06:22] - James explains how having a third party do the assessment offers neutrality and takes away the concern that the property owner or manager is trying to retain an unfair amount of the security deposit.

[07:41] - We move onto the topic of using pros inspections for renewals. Brad and James talk about the frequency of doing inspections. James also mentions some of the things to look for to see if someone has a pet on the property without it being in the lease agreement.

[12:15] - We transition to the topic of periodic inspections. James points out that the job of a property management is to protect owners from tenants. He and Brad talk about a few issues that may arise, including trampolines and smoke alarms.

[16:43] - Brad talks about code compliance, explaining the rules in Texas specifically.

[19:00] - James goes back to the topic of periodic inspections, sharing a story of why one particular company works with OnSight PROS.

[21:44] - We hear about what Brad calls “desktop inspections” and the importance of giving owners reassurance that you’ve actually done an inspection.

[22:40] - Brad shifts to discussing the move-out process. He explains exactly what his management company does in this regard, particularly as it relates to inspections.

[25:38] - James responds to Brad’s point about vendors, and describes what he does in his property management company.

[26:27] - We return from a quick break to talk about some of the costs involved in using OnSight PROS.

[29:45] - Brad talks about ways to defer the cost to owners and tenants rather than putting it all on the property management company.

[32:00] - Since OnSight PROS is only in 14 cities (in 7 states), many listeners may not have one operating in their area. What should listeners do if there isn’t one nearby?

[34:03] - We learn about Brad’s history with OnSight PROS, why his company temporarily did inspections in-house, and why they returned to using James’ company.

[36:58] - Does James like any of the inspection softwares that are currently on the market?

[39:06] - Brad asks James what sorts of dynamic changes are on the horizon and will change the world. As he answers, James points out that he wants to keep up with the times. He and Brad talk about technology such as drones and Roombas, and how these relate to future changes in inspections.

[43:17] - How can listeners get in touch with James?


Links and Resources:

Alderson Properties

James Alderson on LinkedIn

Stephen Foster


Jun 14, 2017

Today’s Guest:

Today’s show is sponsored by Marc Cunningham of Grace Property Management. Marc has created some amazing products for property management companies, which we can say firsthand as we’ve implemented his systems here. Visit their website and try out their products! To get a 10% discount on any of Marc’s products, use the promo code “Brad”!

I’m delighted to bring you the brilliant, talented Ruby Rowan as today’s guest. I know Ruby well, because she’s a portfolio manager with my company here in San Antonio. She started with us as a leasing agent around three years ago, but we put her through real estate school, and now she’s one of our portfolio managers.

Lately, I’ve been getting a lot of questions about how our portfolio management system works. While I’ll contribute to the conversation, I thought the bulk of answering should go to someone who’s intimately familiar with the system from the inside out, since it’s what she does every day at work.

In this episode, Ruby will go into depth about how she manages 181 homes with our company. She’ll share the down and dirty of how things work, how we break up the division of labor here, how she’s compensated (and why being paid a percentage instead of straight salary is a great system), and how her work/life balance is maintained. 

If you’ve ever wondered about how our portfolio management system works, or have considered implementing a similar system yourself, this is the episode for you! Tune in to to learn what works for us, where we’ve made mistakes, and what Ruby sees as the strengths of our system.


Here’s where you can find Ruby:

Ruby Rowan on LinkedIn

Ruby Rowan on


Show Notes

[02:59] - Brad introduces Ruby briefly and explains why she’s called a portfolio manager instead of a property manager.

[03:33] - Ruby discusses her background in real estate and property management, and explains how having been a military spouse has affected this.

[04:51] - We hear a bit about the differences in dealing with apartments versus single-family homes.

[06:40] - Ruby talks about her earliest days at Brad’s company, and Brad elaborates on the challenges of growing as a property management company.

[08:34] - Ruby started off with 110 homes. She explains how she addressed the new system with owners.

[09:58] - Brad shares the thought process behind the challenge of dividing homes among the four portfolio managers. He then discusses compensation for portfolio managers. Ruby then talks about some of the main benefits to the owners.

[13:34] - We return from a quick break to talk about what Brad’s company offers the owners, and how the portfolio managers are the one point of contact despite outsourcing certain things.

[15:52] - Ruby brings up the topic of pets, in that some owners absolutely don’t want them, and explains how she tends to handle this.

[17:00] - What tends to generate the most activity and questions from owners?

[18:01] - Brad describes the company’s 21-day leasing guarantee, and explains the various stipulations.

[19:52] - Ruby explains the next part of the process, involving checking statements to make sure everything is accurate. This takes about an hour and a half with her 181 homes.

[22:12] - We move on to hearing about the segmented part of maintenance. Ruby talks us through how the maintenance side of things works with her as the portfolio manager.

[25:58] - Ruby discusses her work schedule (and the fact that every day is different) and systems, sharing what helps her keep her daily flow manageable.

[28:05] - Brad brings us to the topic of business development. Ruby talks us through the transition from the business development side to her, the portfolio manager.

[29:27] - Brad shares his plan for Ruby as the company grows. Ruby explains that she agrees that the company will need to transition to a bigger system, talking about her workload last summer to illustrate why.

[30:54] - Ruby talks us through what she does when a tenant moves out. She and Brad explain the process, which involves a video walkthrough, in detail.

[33:39] - Brad talks more about the security deposit itemization. Ruby explains that some charges go to the owner, because they can’t charge a tenant for general wear and tear.


Links and Resources:

Ruby Rowan on LinkedIn

Ruby Rowan on

Larsen Properties

Jun 7, 2017

Today’s Guest:

Today’s show is sponsored by Marc Cunningham of Grace Property Management. Marc has created some amazing products for property management companies, which we can say firsthand as we’ve implemented his systems here. Visit their website and try out their products! To get a 10% discount on any of Marc’s products, use the promo code “Brad”! 

Today’s episode is going to be a little bit different. Instead of sharing a conversation with another expert in property management, I want to give you some context to think about your business and its future in broader terms.

With that in mind, today’s guest is my beautiful, amazing 7-year-old daughter, Corah! She and I have been talking for some time now about doing a daddy-daughter episode, and we’re both thrilled that it’s finally happening.

In addition to sharing this facet of the business with my daughter from a young age, my goal with this episode is to get you thinking about things like legacy issues from a new perspective. Corah and I talk about the future in a way that may help you figure out how to have these conversations with your own children, as well as give you some insight into things you should be considering.

One topic I bring up is that the second generation in a business (meaning Corah, in this case) generally does well with the business, while the third generation more often squanders the wealth that the previous generations have created.

I’ve set up some requirements that Corah needs to meet before she becomes part of the business, which I’ll touch on in this episode. You’ll also hear about the importance of setting up a trust to avoid having your estate go to probate if the worst happens. We then discuss potential major disruptors to the property management industry.


Show Notes

[02:38] - Corah gets warmed up by talking about her favorite things to do.

[03:38] - Brad brings up the topic of legacy issues, talking with Corah about generational issues. Corah then reveals that in the future, she would love to do what her dad does and own the company (rather than being a dentist).

[04:54] - Brad discusses a couple who he recently spoke with in Florida who gave him some insight into working with their children. He then outlines some requirements for Corah before she can join the business.

[05:54] - We learn more about Brad’s background, including the fact that he started the business from scratch.

[06:38] - Brad shifts to the topic of having legal protections in place, explaining to Corah (and the audience) that he and his wife put everything into a trust several years ago. He recommends Matt Spahn as a trust attorney.

[10:35] - After a short break, Brad and Corah talk about the future, with Brad mentioning that the property management industry is still waiting for its big disruptor. He and Corah then talk about the importance of technology.

[12:06] - We circle back to the idea of major disruptors. Brad explains one possible option to Corah using the clear example of their upcoming vacation.

[12:58] - Brad asks Corah a big question: would she rather go on vacation to the same place every time, or to a new place each time? He then ties her answer into how the industry may be changing.

[14:26] - We hear about the potential role of drones in property management. Brad then talks about the possibility of cash becoming obsolete, with everything being done electronically.

[16:14] - Corah shares what she’s most excited about this summer: not having school!


Links and Resources:

Marc Cunningham on LinkedIn

Grace Property Management

Property Management Systems by Marc Cunningham

Matt Spahn

Dave Ramsey

May 31, 2017

Today’s Guest: 

Today’s show is sponsored by the National Property Management Network, which provides insurance products and services such as tenant liability insurance to property managers. 

I’m excited to share this interview with Marc Cunningham, who will talk about some of his incredible systems and products. I’ve been very impressed with what he’s putting together, and can’t wait for you to hear all about it and decide whether his products might be right for you. 

Before digging into his products, though, you’ll get some background and insight into Marc himself (which will help explain why he’s so highly qualified to create these works). As he explains in the interview, he grew up in the world of property and real estate, and was dealing with various business aspects while still a child. This all came about because his father started Grace Management & Investment, so Marc had deep exposure from a young age. 

Marc also reveals “the big secret in the property management world,” which is that ”everybody thinks they’re the only ones that don’t get it.” Wow! Just take a moment to let that sink in. If you’re feeling like you’re a little bit lost or unsure of the best ways to do things, it’s not because you’re somehow the least-knowledgeable person around… but rather because we all feel that way sometimes.

Of course, that isn’t to say that you should be content with where you are and stop striving to be better. There’s always room for improvement, and this is where Marc’s products come into play. I’ll let him describe them for you himself in this conversation, but take it from me that these incredible tools are a direct investment in your business that can help you achieve your goals.

Best of all, Marc is offering a generous discount for listeners: 10% off any of his products when you use the promo code “Brad”!

Here’s where you can find Marc:

Marc Cunningham on LinkedIn

Grace Management & Investment

Grace Management & Investment Products


Show Notes

[02:08] - Marc grew up in the property management and real estate world, he explains, because his father started Grace Management. He then explains the progression of the company, and what they do today.

[03:43] - Brad points out that Marc, being in Colorado, has a seasonal leasing market. Marc then clarifies that other factors steady out the overall flow.

[04:26] - We learn about Marc’s degree in real estate.

[05:13] - The main reason Brad wanted Marc on the show was to talk about his educational products (specifically systems manuals) and how they can benefit companies. Marc then explains some of the background of why he and his father shifted the style of the business.

[07:49] - Marc explains that the products were originally made for Grace Management rather than to sell.

[09:14] - Marc mentions a survey he heard recently about employee engagement, in which employees rated this comment most highly: “I know what is expected of me at the office.” Brad then dives into how personalities play into this.

[11:09] - Brad has his MPM candidacy with NARPM completed (FIND AND LINK THESE). This allows one to test for the CRMC designation (FIND AND LINK THIS), for which the outline is near what Marc’s products are. Marc and Brad then discuss this.

[13:27] - Marc goes back a step, explaining how he and his father started sharing their creations and that people started asking to buy the full versions long before it occurred to them to sell them.

[15:36] - The products come in Word format. Marc talks about how people usually use them.

[17:37] - Brad offers an example: a medium-sized company comes to Marc wanting to put all his systems in place. Marc then walks us through how this situation plays out, generally in one of two ways.

[19:58] - Did Marc go to a pro or consultant to get the systems manuals set up, or did he do them himself?

[21:44] - Marc talks us through the cost of the various packages that Grace Management offers, which range from $497 to over $3,000. The larger packages, he explains, offer one-on-one time with him.

[25:31] - Marc is still a property management company owner, he explains, and the systems manuals are a side note.

[25:28] - Does Marc have any success stories he can share?

[26:32] - Brad brings up another product of Marc’s addressing ways to make money. In response, Marc explains how he identified the need for that other product.

[28:54] - We hear about how effective this product was for one user, who was able to go on a trip to Vegas after implementing the first idea.

[30:14] - How did Marc decide how to price his various products?

[32:34] - Marc tells us where to find the products he’s been discussing. They’re available at He then talks a bit more about these products.

[34:08] - Marc makes a special offer for Property Management Mastermind Show listeners. Enter the promo code “Brad” to get 10% off Marc’s products!

[36:29] - We learn one of the reasons that Marc believes that systems are so important: they “dramastically” (a word he coins here) increase the value of your business.


Links and Resources:

Marc Cunningham on LinkedIn

Grace Management & Investment

Grace Management & Investment Products

National Property Management Network

National Association of Residential Property Managers (NARPM)

DISC profile

CRMC Designation Candidacy Checklist

May 17, 2017

Amy Karns, who is intimately familiar with various aspects of property management thanks to having bought, sold, and started property management companies.

She got her introduction to property management in San Antonio, where she bought a company over the course of five years by purchasing 20% a year (while the previous owners played less and less of a role each year). Amy built that company up from 90 doors to 225 doors over the 10 years that she ran it.

Eventually, an offer from another company interested in buying hers got her interested in the possibility of selling. While the original offer wasn’t one that would work for her, she soon found the right buyer and sold her company, as she describes in some detail here.

After that, Amy did what we all dream about: moved to a new market and started from scratch using all the lessons she had learned and her vast, valuable previous experience. As she explains in our conversation, her goal is to manage 50 properties from home and make the same income as she did from 250 properties.

You’ll hear how she plans to do this, as well as how she has turned unaccompanied showing systems into a giant revenue generator. She talks about the incredible value in doing everything online, and how her current business lets her work from Punta Cana.

Here’s where you can find Amy:

Amy Karns on

Amy Karns on Facebook

Amy Karns on LinkedIn


Show Notes

[02:08] - Amy offers us a look into her background and history in property management. She explains how she acquired a company over a five-year period.

[03:43] - We hear in more detail how Amy found this five-year opportunity to take over the company.

[05:55] - Were there any control issues between the previous owners of the company and Amy during the transition period?

[07:24] - Amy ran that company for 10 years, growing the company from 90 doors to 225 doors over that period. She also discusses the company’s leanness.

[08:53] - What caused Amy to look at selling that company? She reveals that she hadn’t considered selling it until an offer came in. She then discusses the move from renting to buying her office space.

[13:05] - Amy explains the problem with the first offer she received, which was that the buying company wanted her to teach them to do property management. She then talks about the pricing strategy she used to set up the sale once she found the right buyer.

[16:08] - Once Amy had the right buyer lined up, how did they move forward? She and Brad then touch on non-compete agreements and exclusivity clauses.

[18:26] - Amy walks us through some of the terms of the purchase agreement she made when selling the company.

[21:33] - How did the closing work during Amy’s sale?

[24:03] - After the sale, Amy picked up and moved to a whole new market. She then reveals that if she could go anywhere, she would pick Phoenix or Colorado. She then talks us through how her move to Dallas worked out, and explains why she chose to stay in Texas.

[27:50] - Getting leads in a new market is very difficult, Amy reveals.

[28:53] - Amy discusses the difficulty of competing in Dallas as a new property management company.

[30:30] - We hear about Amy’s experience in going from having a team to being the one to do everything herself. She then shares her impressive goal.

[32:17] - Being small allows Amy to be selective about the properties and owners she takes on. She and Brad then discuss some of the factors involved in staying small.

[35:01] - It’s important to set up the expectation with clients that you’re going to do everything online, Amy explains.

{37:41] - Amy talks us through how she’s doing unassisted showings with two types of lock boxes. Brad then reiterates her point that you don’t need to meet every tenant any longer, and discusses the problems with doing showings 30 days before the current lease ends, as is currently standard practice.

[42:01] - Does Amy think she’s getting more for the homes based on the self-assisted showings?

[43:20] - Amy offers a last-minute suggestion: become a member of NARPM if you aren’t one already!


Links and Resources:

Amy Karns on

Amy Karns on Facebook

Amy Karns on LinkedIn

Punta Cana

National Property Management Network

National Association of Residential Property Managers (NARPM)


Tenant Turner


May 3, 2017

Joining me for this episode is Jason Waggoner, the Vice President of Marketing at ACUTRAQ. In case you aren’t familiar with it, ACUTRAQ is an application screening company that covers various types of screening.

As a result of this work, Jason is full of deep and detailed knowledge on just about every aspect of the application and screening process, dealing with HUD, dealing with fair housing, and all other related aspects of the application cycle. In this conversation, he shares that knowledge and offers great insight into these topics and more.

An example of what Jason has to offer is his balanced perspective on how to handle negative factors on an application, such as a low credit score or a criminal history. In both cases, he advises a personal rather than a kneejerk approach. For example, a potentially ideal tenant may have a low credit score simply due to medical bills, and have a perfect track record with every other bill and rent. Similarly, someone may have a criminal history for a minor crime such as marijuana possession a decade ago, in which case that alone may not indicate anything about how they would be as a tenant today.

With that said, he’s well aware of the risk factors involved for landlords. He suggests being very detailed and open with your screening criteria for reasons that he explains in the episode. When it comes to adverse action letters, he offers great advice such as denying for credit delinquencies instead of credit score.

Many of these subjects have been touchy hot-topics in the NARPM community lately, so let’s take a listen and hear what Jason has to say!

Show Notes

[02:01] - Jason gives us an introduction to who he is and the company he works for, as well as the types of screenings the company is able to cover.

[04:22] - When you’re qualifying tenants, many people want to go by their gut feeling without understanding what they’re doing.

[05:05] - Brad offers a story related to what Jason has been saying. He explains that his director of leasing encountered a “property manager” who approves applicants depending on how they feel about them. Jason then explains when it really set in for him that your gut feeling isn’t a reliable standard.

[07:52] - Jason discusses the intricacies of the screening side of the application process. Hot topics include animals, felons, and decisions based on credit scores. He also emphasizes the importance of posting your screening criteria publicly so that unqualified applicants won’t waste their (or your) time.

[10:54] - Brad and Jason discuss the difficult process of declining applicants. Jason emphasizes the importance of making sure you’re doing everything by the book, because tenants know their rights and you can get in trouble if you don’t do things properly. He gives an example involving a service dog.

[14:59] - Brad points out that some DIY or home-based landlords forget why they hire management companies.

[15:33] - Jason goes into more detail about the adverse action letter.

[17:50] Brad brings up the topic of risk mitigation. Jason responds by discussing the necessity of digging deeper into a low credit score and giving people an opportunity. He and Brad then discuss how to do this.

[21:21] - We return to the topic of owners, who could be missing out on a great tenant because they denied someone based on a low credit score when they’re ideal in other ways.

[22:36] - Brad and Jason talk about another hot topic: felons. HUD is now saying that it’s important to look at the criminal history in more depth rather than just immediately reacting to it.

[25:15] - HUD is not trying to make criminals a protected class, Jason clarifies.

[26:16] - Jason returns from the pain point to the solution, which goes back to being clear about your intention to screen criminal history and saying “your criminal history may be cause for denial” upfront.

[28:15] - Brad brings up the business side of this, explaining briefly what ACUTRAQ is. Jason then talks about the popularity and benefits of outsourcing.

[31:58] - Is the application process integrated into a client’s potential website? After answering, Jason explains one of the things that sets ACUTRAQ apart from other companies, which is their personal touch.

[34:49] - Jason talks us through the services he goes through once an application comes in.

[38:09] - Jason offers an example of trying to establish someone’s criminal history when he or she may have had different names (due to marriages, nicknames, and so on).

[40:12] - We hear about some of what Jason is doing, including his involvement in the music scene and how the knowledge he got from that industry led to his creation of his music video, the Bad Tenant Blues.

[42:52] - Where can people find Jason? At or by going to the ACUTRAQ website.


Links and Resources:

National Property Management Network

Jason Waggoner on LinkedIn

@ACUTRAQ on Twitter

Jason Waggoner at ACUTRAQ


Bad Tenant Blues

First Class Realty on YouTube

Apr 19, 2017

If you’ve been a faithful listener of this show, you will already have heard of Pete Neubig of Empire Industries LLC, a property management company out of Houston, TX. Pete is partners with Steve Rozenberg, my guest on episode three of this podcast. In that episode, we went into great deal about satellite offices and marketing.

While Pete touches briefly on these topics, he spends more time on his areas of expertise. He’s the guy in the background who makes things run and ensures the systems at Empire Industries keep up with the growth.

Pete is also deeply knowledgeable about hiring and employee retention. He’s been using the framework of the DISC personality profile to ensure he hires the right people for the right roles, after realizing the reason he lost certain employees was because their personalities weren’t the right fit for their jobs. He’ll explain this in the interview, as well as offer insight into what personality types you should hire for certain roles within your own property management company.

We then take a deep dive into techniques for dealing with homes that have high days on market. He shares some tips and strategies for how to deal with a situation in which a home you’re trying to rent has high days on market and offers advice on how to get those rented. We cover, for example, the importance of keeping the owner in the loop, and of making the move-in process as simple and hassle-free as possible.

Show Notes

[02:18] - Pete starts things off by telling us that he comes from the investor side and needed to look for a management company himself at one point. He explains how this led to where he is today.

[03:55] - Brad gives listeners some background on Pete and his partner Steve Rosenberg. Brad then elaborates on their roles within the company.

[05:39] - Pete talks more about how the company handles the extreme growth that they’ve had.

[06:39] - The Property Management Mastermind Show was basically Brad and Pete chatting for the last couple years, Brad explains.

[07:19] - Pete brings up some challenges that may help listeners. One of his challenges is losing property managers, often from stress, so he’s been trying to figure out how to help them be stress-free.

[09:53] - Part of the challenge that Empire Industries had as a company was hiring a lot of inexperienced property managers. Pete then talks about the database he’s making for property managers within the company.

[11:16] - Pete discusses how he and Steve brought the concept of scripts in the sales world into the property management world.

[12:12] - Brad and Pete talk about one of Brad’s employees, “Rockstar” Ruby. Pete talks about his experience interviewing Ruby.

[14:16] - We hear more about what Pete has done in terms of opening multiple locations in Houston. They’ve opened six satellite offices at this point, in addition to the main office. Brad then talks about how this is important for showing up on Google.

[17:03] - Pete shares how important the internet has been for getting new leads, comparing it to agent referrals. He then talks about the challenge of keeping systems working with fast growth.

[19:25] - Brad brings up what Pete and Steve are doing in San Antonio today.

[22:00] - Pete mentions the last seminar he went to, which was the 10x Growth Con by Grant Cardone. Brad and Pete then talk about the products they’re developing, as well as why you should send a seven-page, heartfelt letter instead of a one-page letter.

[25:29] - When Pete does his marketing, he makes sure to hit each part of the DISC personality profile to appeal to everybody, not just one personality type.

[26:28] - Pete goes into more depth about the DISC personality profile, and explains how he has applied it to hiring managers.

[28:47] - Pete’s partner Steve is a very high I on the DISC profile, whereas Pete is a DC. Pete describes how this impacts their communication and interactions. He then talks about why a couple of CS portfolio managers have recently quit, and explains why they now hire CDs for that role.

[31:29] - Pete talks about the role of the DISC profile in his hiring process. He also offers suggestions for which personality type to hire for various roles.

[34:35] - We learn about Pete’s strategies for ensuring that days on market for his rentals aren’t getting too high.

[38:05] - Brad offers some techniques he’s heard of, including offering free TVs. Their internal strategy is to send owners a Monday morning update each week. He then dives into another of their strategies: getting more into the cash flow analysis.

[41:57] - Another strategy Brad uses is pointing out to owners how much they lose every month their property is vacant because they’re unwilling to lower the rent.

[42:46] - Pete talks about the strategy of lowering the entry point of how much a renter needs to bring in (for example, by offering two weeks free on the first month’s rent).

[44:07] - Pete explains how much of a detriment red tape can be when you’re renting out a house.

Links and Resources:

National Property Management Network

Empire Industries LLC

Steve Rozenberg on the Property Management Mastermind podcast

Pete Neubig on LinkedIn

10x Growth Con

Grant Cardone

DISC personality profile

Apr 5, 2017

Last week, I had a great conversation with Todd Breen, one of my cofounders at the National Property Management Network. This week, I’m bringing you a conversation with another of the cofounders, Dave Holt. One of the benefits of doing this is that I know these guys well and can personally vouch for their expertise in their niches.

In addition to his role at the National Property Management Network, Dave is the owner of a property management company in Minneapolis, Minnesota. He’s been involved in the property management industry for around 20 years and is a past NARPM president

In this episode, Dave will talk in great detail about investments. He shares his tips and strategies for how he does his own investments, and shares the techniques he uses to find and buy investment properties. He also explains that when you manage single-family homes, you have some unique advantages when it comes to investing in them.

I hope you enjoy and learn a lot from this episode, which we recorded on location in Las Vegas at the NARPM Broker/Owner Conference.

Show Notes

[02:39] - Dave’s claim to fame and niche of expertise is investing for property managers. He touches on the benefits of being a property manager when you get involved in investing.

[03:34] - Dave shares how long he’s been working in the industry, and he and Brad discuss the cycles of real estate. Dave then talks about investing and property management in relation to recessions.

[05:27] - We hear a bit about where Dave tends to pick up his properties.

[07:01] - Brad talks about the “where” of getting leads. He discusses off-market chasing, explaining what the term means. Dave then talks about where he gets his leads.

[10:00] - Dave and Brad walk us through a scenario in which an owner wants to cut and run.

[10:53] - Brad and Dave talk specific numbers to illustrate what they’ve been discussing. They reveal that 15% off the potential list price is a more realistic number for what the seller might actually receive, and therefore is a fair offer for the property. Dave also clarifies what the MAO (maximum allowable offer) is.

[18:01] - Another factor to take into account is profit, Dave explains. He suggests not using appreciation in your formula.

[20:12] - The key to this formula is that there needs to be no lien on the property that will overshadow the calculations, Brad explains. Dave then gives an example of a time when he bought an underwater property.

[24:10] - How much did Dave make on flipping the house he just described?

[24:53] - Dave presents another scenario, this time one that doesn’t involve flipping. Buying and holding is a great strategy for property managers, he explains.

[27:10] - We learn how Dave explains to sellers that he needs to take over their mortgage payments. He then talks about some ways to do this, and he and Dave discuss due-on-sale clauses.

[29:28] - Brad talks us through some of the things he’s done with taking over loans. Dave then shares his method.

[31:55] - Brad explains that he’s using a series LLC for his properties, and shares the reasons he chose to go this route. Dave responds by talking about risk mitigation and exploring other options.

[35:11] - The important part of these strategies is the separation between personal and business finances, Dave explains. He and Brad then discuss owner financing deals.

[39:38] - Dave takes us through a few other examples and options. In the process, he talks about master leasing, and recommends looking up David Tilney to learn more about it.

[42:13] - Brad brings up depreciation, and he and Dave spend a moment discussing its importance.

[44:57] - What recommendations would Dave give someone on where to start? Some recommendations are Lou Brown (in Atlanta) and the BiggerPockets site and podcast.

[47:05] - Dave gives his final advice to property managers about how to start investing.


Links and Resources:

National Property Management Network


NARPM Broker/Owner Conference.

Series LLC

David Tilney

Lou Brown



Mar 29, 2017

As you may know, I’m one of the founders of the National Property Management Network. Todd Breen, today’s guest, is another. Thanks to this close working experience with him, I’m deeply familiar with his expertise in the property management industry, and am glad to have him on the show to share that expertise with you! We’re actually recording this episode on location in Las Vegas at the NARPM Broker/Owner Conference.

Todd has been the owner of a property management company for over 30 years, but he has been involved in the industry from an early age. His dad was a real estate broker, so he began his unofficial training while working in various capacities for his father from the time he was young. Today, Todd is the owner of Virtually Incredible.

In this interview, Todd will talk about outsourcing and why it’s vital to keeping your rates competitive and being able to scale effectively. He also shares brilliant (and sometimes counterintuitive) advice, experiences, and techniques. For example, he explains how he actually increased his income when he reduced his doors from 300 to 140 in 1994.

Show Notes

[02:25] - Todd turns the standard script on its head by plugging Brad instead of letting Brad plug him. He and Brad then talk about the cost of putting things off instead of doing them right now.

[03:40] - Todd takes us back to his beginnings in real estate and property management. He also shares the problem with thinking that any money is good money.

[06:29] - We learn how Todd’s income actually increased when he reduced his total number of doors in half.

[07:16] - Todd explains how he handled reducing his number of doors, mentioning his book The Manager’s Manual.

[10:50] - Virtually Incredible focuses on three main tasks, Todd explains. He describes his shift from working in his business to working on it, and talks about how SEO factored into this. As part of this story, we learn how he met his wife.

[15:04] - Brad talks about his choice to make videos when YouTube came out.

[16:09] - Todd talks more about what Virtually Incredible does, and what he expects it to do in the future.

[18:24] - Brad jumps in for a moment to elaborate on what Todd has been saying about verification.

[20:12] - We hear about a secret shopping campaign that Virtually Incredible performs every so often to evaluate management companies in a specific geographic area. He then explains how having people answering phones 85 hours a week dramatically reduced his vacancy list and days on market.

[22:53] - The property management has largely ignored the consumer experience for too long, Todd says, then explains what he means.

[26:46] - Todd and Brad talk about DocuSign briefly, then move on to discuss the preference of today’s tenants to text rather than come in and talk face-to-face. At least 75% of people choose to pay a convenience fee for lockbox entry than to come into the office to get the key, Brad reveals.

[28:46] - The checklist Todd’s company uses for the leasing cycle has 72 steps.

[31:25] - Todd discusses outsourcing, and explains why many property management companies tend to stagnate at a certain number of doors.

[32:28] - We hear Todd’s thoughts on where he sees Virtually Incredible going in the future.

[34:13] - Brad talks about top-down pressure and capped out (or falling) management fees.

[35:53] - Todd offers a story about his grandfather, a pharmacist, to illustrate the risk of thinking you’re irreplaceable.

[38:24] - Brad and Todd move on to talking about their venture together, National Property Management Network.

[40:12] - Todd shares his closing thoughts for the interview, expressing his excitement at seeing people coming up in the industry. He then shares his email address to make it easy to stay in touch.

Links and Resources:

NARPM Broker/Owner Conference

Virtually Incredible

National Property Management Network

The Manager’s Manual


Mar 15, 2017

In this episode, we hear from Justin Bajema, a property management company owner from Michigan who recently moved to Texas. In this powerful interview, he talks not only about property management, but also his experiences in the Marine Corps.

In 2003, Justin was coming back from Iraq and got a care package from his aunt and uncle. Inside was a copy of Rich Dad, Poor Dad. From that book, he got the real estate bug, and got involved in the industry when he got out of the army in 2005.

In the process of learning about the industry, Justin’s wife actually went to work for a competitor (where she was open about their interest in getting into property management). From there, they transitioned into owning single-family homes. After finding out about the National Association of Residential Property Managers (NARPM), they set up their own chapter.

After learning about Justin’s background in property management, we’ll explore how his experiences in the Marine Corps contributed to what he’s doing today. He’s deeply involved with an organization called Warriors Heart, which helps members of the “military class” (including law enforcement and first responders as well) heal. We talk an important way in which property managers can contribute to this vital and life-changing program.

Show Notes

[02:09] - Justin talks about how he got into property management.

[04:00] - We hear more about Justin’s choice to start a property management company. He also talks about conferences in general, and the National Association of Residential Property Managers (NARPM) specifically.

[07:19] - Justin discusses owning their company from a distance. He talks about Michael Gerber’s book The E Myth. He then explains that he hated managing people, so he had to clarify what he did (and didn’t) want from a company.

[10:52] - What were some of the keys that allowed Justin to break away from being in the office on a regular basis? He and Brad then discuss employees in terms of hiring decisions and necessary roles, and talk about outsourcing bookkeeping.

[15:22] - Justin recently got rid of his in-house accounting, he reveals, in response to Brad’s advice about outsourcing certain services.

[18:35] - Justin talks about going completely electronic with all of their accounts payable. This is both more convenient and less of a security risk.

[20:11] - We hear about Justin’s choices in software and banking.

[22:32] - Brad takes a moment to tell the story of how he and Justin met.

[23:33] - Justin went into the Marine Corps in May of 2001. 9/11 happened during his training. He served two tours in Iraq, and shares some of his experiences there.

[29:22] - We learn why Justin offered this information about his time in the military. He explains that a deep part of him still feels the need to take care of the guys in the military.

[32:03] - Justin talks about charities for veterans, and recommends going to an organization like Charity Navigator to assess a charity’s financials before donating to it.

[35:15] - We hear more about Justin’s move to Texas and his partnership with Warriors Heart. He then talks more about the program, what it does, and why it’s so vital.

[27:47] - There are two requirements for applicants to get into the program: PTSD and a chemical dependency. After discussing this, Justin explains in more depth why this program in particular was necessary, related to the story of what he saw happening to one of his close friends.

[40:26] - Justin touches on the possibility of the program expanding into more locations.

[40:55] - Brad and Justin came up with an idea for supporting the program through a referral system, which they discuss here.

[43:11] - Justin offers an invitation to visit the Warriors Heart property and program in San Antonio.

[45:32] - The program isn’t just for military, but rather for the “military class,” as Justin puts it. In addition to military, this also includes law enforcement and first responders.

[47:35] - What are Justin’s long-term goals for his involvement with Warriors Heart? In his answer, Justin explains the cost of the program, and where financial contributions go.

[49:14] - Justin lists ways to get in touch with him and learn more about the foundation. He also expresses that his biggest goal is awareness. He then invites listeners to email him directly at


Links and Resources:

Justin Bajema on LinkedIn

Warriors Heart

Rich Dad, Poor Dad

National Association of Residential Property Managers (NARPM)

The E Myth

Charity Navigator

Mar 7, 2017

First, a quick note: today’s show is sponsored by the National Property Management Network, which provides insurance products and services to property managers.

Today, I’m joined by one of my clients, Mark Clayton. He’s a successful long-term single-family home investor who will teach us about investing and working with property management. Best of all, he’s a landlord with a heart. That is, he isn’t in the real estate game just to make money, but also to make his tenants happy.

Before he got into property investing, Mark was the CEO of several hospitals. As a hospital administrator, he had to move from town to town relatively often. This led indirectly to his involvement in property management, as he bought various homes during this process. Once Mark got up to three homes, he started looking into property management and we began working together.

In this conversation, Mark talks about why he got into the single-family home game, explaining that these homes diversify him from a risk standpoint. If you own multi-family properties instead, a single issue or problem (such as a fire) could impact much more of your overall investment.

We’ll also talk about Mark’s financing techniques, why depreciation is a good thing, what Mark looks for when deciding on whether to invest in a particular property, a valuable tool Mark uses for establishing metrics, and finally, his end game and ultimate goal for his business.

Show Notes

[02:09] - Mark starts us off by talking about his background, and how this background led him into property management.

[03:50] - We learn more about how Mark got into single-family home ownership.

[08:55] - Why did Mark choose to go into single-family homes? In his answer, he explains that he asks himself whether he can see his mother living there as part of what he looks for.

[10:48] - Mark elaborates on how important it is to him to make sure his tenants are happy. He then gives an example of doing a repair right the first time around.

[13:48] - Mark talks us through financing, especially for his early properties.

[15:05] - We hear more about the nuts and bolts of Mark’s process, including his views on repairs and renovations.

[17:58] - The first three homes Mark bought, before meeting Brad, weren’t bought at a discount. He then talks more about these properties.

[21:19] - Brad points out that some homes may cash flow well, while others don’t, creating an averaging effect. Mark elaborates on this, and touches on his portfolio pruning process. He also describes the experience of working with A+ Federal Credit Union.

[24:58] - Mark talks more about the benefits of working with the credit union. He and Brad then talk about the challenges of moving beyond 10 single-family homes. Mark then recommends not giving up your steady full-time job before you transition toward a commercial lender.

[29:52] - Having professional property management in place was a big part of getting commercial loans, Mark explains.

[30:53] - Brad talks about the necessity of renting a home quickly, even if that means you have to drop the price. Mark then moves on to talking about why he finds Texas a good place to invest, and suggests being “regionally agnostic” to those in less ideal locations.

[34:53] - We hear about some methods that allow people to view homes from a distance.

[35:22] - Brad talks about a story of a home Mark bought in Georgetown. Mark doesn’t remember this particular home offhand, but talks about learning from his mistakes.

[38:15] - Mark talks about the tool he uses for metrics: Property Tracker. He talks in depth about how he uses this program, and also explains what he looks for when considering a new property.

[41:46] - Mark explains why depreciation can be a great thing.

[44:07] - What is Mark’s end game? That is, does he want to build up the business and sell it, or nurse the cash flow with no end in sight?

[45:58] - Mark ends the episode by expressing appreciation for Brad and his company, going into detail about what makes Brad and his team stand out.

Links and Resources:

National Property Management Network

A+ Federal Credit Union

NOI (Net Operating Income)

Property Tracker

Feb 28, 2017

My guest on this episode, Darren Hunter, is an expert in fee maximization. Just as importantly, as you’ll hear him describe in great detail, he understands the mindset challenges that need to be overcome to effectively implement fee maximization. For much of this conversation, we go behind talking about that implementation into the mindset of the company owner and staff members.

Darren started as a property manager in 1989 in Adelaide, South Australia. He went on to become a state property manager with a well-known Australian real estate brand, for which he impressively managed 28 other property managers over 18 offices spread over a third of the country.

For the last 11 years, Darren has been a full-time professional property management trainer and consultant. He runs the PM Power Nuts & Bolts Webinar Series, which addresses some of the topics we’ll cover in this episode along with many others.

Much of our focus will be on that question of mindset, which I mentioned at the beginning of this introduction. Darren, we learn, struggled for a couple years because of his own low self-esteem and poor confidence. From there, he learned about the law of the fee lid, which says that your mindset and level of belief determines your fees, and you cannot do any better than what you believe you’re worth.

It’s natural to be hesitant about raising fees over fear that you might lose business. In this episode, Darren also goes into important depth about why losing some business through fee maximization is actually a good thing, and he and I use several examples to illustrate this point.

You can find Darren here:

Darren Hunter on LinkedIn

@darrenhuntercom on Facebook

@darrenhuntercom on Twitter

By email at


Show Notes

[01:59] - Darren gives us a glimpse into his background in real estate. He then shares two stories about what happened when he raised fees. Despite a couple of objections, he reveals, the profit margin doubled.

[08:44] - Brad and Darren discuss fee increases, and the lesson you can learn from this: “Would you lose $10 to make $10,000?” Darren then talks about the “autopsy” he does of lost business after fee increases.

[10:24] - Brad would rather lose an owner than a staff member, he says, and gives an example of what he means.

[11:31] - We hear what Darren does in terms of changing people’s mindsets. He talks about the law of the fee lid. He and Brad then discuss justification, or points of difference, as well as discounters and pricing structures.

[16:23] - Darren elaborates on what Brad has been saying about giving something of minimal value rather than discounting the management fee.

[19:13] - We learn more about the mindset in Australia, New Zealand, and the United States. Darren then uses Texas’ gun laws to illustrate a point about Australian culture. He then gives examples of tenant protection laws.

[25:30] - Darren digs deeper into the mindset questions he’s been talking about. He also talks about why the majority of owners will stay through a fee increase, which has to do with peace of mind.

[30:14] - We hear more about peace of mind among owners, and how that affects whether to raise fees.

[30:59] - There are five types of clients you shouldn’t increase fees with, which Darren lists here. He then gives an example of justifying a new fee.

[37:34] - Darren offers another story about a company he’s dealing with, this time in Oregon.

[39:58] - Darren talks more about his current time in the United States, including where he’s going next.

[42:27] - We learn more about Darren’s services. He suggests going to his website, and discusses the webinar series he offers: PM Power Nuts & Bolts Webinar Series. He also mentions his online store and his knowledge library.

[45:12] - Brad talks about having zero tolerance for not paying rent on time, and discusses how American fair housing laws apply to this. Darren then responds by sharing his stance on zero tolerance.


Links and Resources:

Darren Hunter on LinkedIn

@darrenhuntercom on Facebook

@darrenhuntercom on Twitter

By email at

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Feb 17, 2017

Tim Melton is the president and co-founder of SGI Property Management. Before getting into real estate, Tim worked in the automobile industry, where he gained experience working with dealerships and financing. As luck would have it, this correlates nicely to his work with property management companies.

Tim and SGI Property Management are based in Phoenix, but the company has worked its way up to several market locations. Tim started the company in Phoenix in 2011, but his goal was always to move into multiple markets, partly because Phoenix is a volatile market and expanding would allow for more stability. Now, SGI Property Management has grown into Memphis, Las Vegas, and Dallas.

In our conversation, Tim goes through quite a bit of the process of expanding into different market locations. He reveals the exact number of units necessary to make him consider a new location, and emphasizes the importance of understanding the local market dynamics in different areas. This includes not only the local culture and standards, but also practical details like the fact that some areas freeze and others don’t.

He also shares some great insights into how to run a company, with an emphasis on creating a vibrant office culture and environment. You’ll have to listen to the episode to hear everything he has to say, but I’ll share one excerpt here: in the center of the main office, there’s a house that will hold around 10,000 ping pong balls. For each signed property, they drop in a ping pong ball that’s color coded by market. This is a fun visual way of marking their progress toward the large goal of reaching 10,000 units.

As you can gather from that excerpt, Tim is creative, original, and results-driven. Listen in to hear his brilliant insight and advice!


You can find Tim here:

SGI Property Management


Show Notes

[01:44] - Tim launches off by talking about how he got started.

[02:44] - We hear more about Tim’s experience at the Van Tuyl Group in the automotive industry, and how this experience relates to what he’s doing now.

[05:31] - Brad takes a moment to talk about economies of scale, touching on what the concept means. Tim then elaborates, talking about how this applies to his business.

[06:51] - Tim goes into more depth about the value created by combining forces in the automobile industry.

[07:37] - We learn how this relates to property management from Tim’s perspective.

[08:20] - Tim speaks enthusiastically about Wayne Huizenga, who eventually had the nation’s largest trash route business.

[09:48] - His experiences in the automobile industry helped him know the goal when he began his real estate company, Tim explains. He then walks us through the company’s early days.

[12:27] - What does Tim consider the first big breaks for his business?

[13:47] - Tim talks about the visual motivation tool in the office, and also discusses several aspects of office culture and environment that contribute to strengthening the business.

[15:59] - Their employee of the month contest, which Tim describes here, offers some great insight into how the company works.

[18:00] - We hear Tim’s thoughts on the importance of keeping things exciting and worthwhile for everyone involved.

[18:42] - Tim talks about some of the challenges involved in being in multiple markets.

[20:40] - What gets handled locally in the related market, and what gets taken care of at the main location in Phoenix? Tim answers, then addresses some of the challenges and benefits involved in this setup.

[23:59] - The company’s structure gives Tim the ability to deploy to any market quickly. The break-even point to consider going into a new market for is 150 units. In discussing this, Tim talks about their expansion to Memphis.

[26:31] - Tim offers some advice that he’s learned from his experience with expanding into other markets.

[27:42] - With the acquisition trends we’re seeing, where does Tim think the industry is heading?

[29:36] - Tim talks about some of the roadblocks he’s encountered in the acquisitions efforts. He reveals that it’s very rarely about the money.

[30:43] - We hear about the multiples Tim has been seeing in the industry.

[32:56] - Tim and Brad discuss the correlation between the examples of the automobile and the waste management industry as it relates to the property management industry. They also talk about reducing overhead by tying into something bigger.

[35:48] - Where does Tim think the industry as a whole is heading?

[38:48] - What’s the best way to reach Tim? He provides his email address to make it easy to get in touch directly.

Links and Resources:

SGI Property Management

Van Tuyl Group

Wayne Huizenga


Feb 15, 2017

This time, I’m joined by Steve Rosenberg from Empire Industries in Houston, Texas. In addition to being an expert property manager, Steve is a distinguished speaker and international trainer who has a passion for helping people -- especially other property managers -- grow their businesses.

Steve and Pete Neubig, whose name you may remember from the last episode, are co-founders of Empire Industries, which now has around 600 properties in the Houston area.

Thanks to the massive growth in the area, Steve has been working on setting up different satellite offices, as he calls them, around the Houston area. This is important in reducing windshield time, which can be a huge problem in such a big area.

In this episode, we talk quite a bit about these satellite offices. Topics we cover include the financial and expense questions to consider when setting up a satellite office as well as the SEO challenges of having these offices. We also talk about the challenges that come with quick growth. Steve explains that about 50% of people and systems break under this kind of pressure, and we talk about solutions and strategies for managing this.

We also spend a while discussing marketing. Again, the importance of SEO becomes clear, but Steve offers some great suggestions for ways to increase exposure, and we explore the fact that great, value-added content isn’t limited to blogs.


You can find Steve here:

Empire Industries

Empire Industries on Facebook


Show Notes

[02:06] - Steve starts things off addressing the topic of setting up different management centers or pods.

[03:07] - The size of Houston is bigger than a lot of people realize. Steve explains how this contributed to their decision to open small satellite offices.

[04:55] - We hear more about the expenses involved in this strategy.

[07:41] - Did Steve have a break-even number, and is that for each satellite office? As he answers, Steve also talks about the point at which a BDM/marketing agent needs to pick one role or the other.

[11:34] - Steve talks about the SEO benefits of having satellite offices. He then talks about the SEO challenges.

[14:04] - We hear more about Steve’s strategy for SEO related to satellite offices. He then lists one of their biggest challenges: the mental hurdle of taking a big step and scaling up.

[15:27] - Brad steps in for a moment to talk about the structure of Empire Industries, which has two principals: Steve Rosenberg and Pete Neubig.

[16:09] - Steve shares more about Empire Industries and its growth process. He and Brad then discuss the necessity of changing things as a company expands.

[20:53] - We learn about making something scaleable and ensuring consistency. Steve offers an example using their 600 properties.

[23:34] - Brad offers an example of his own. He and Steve then talk about Pete Neubig, and how he implemented systems to work efficiently.

[25:23] - Most people’s challenge isn’t a toolset issue, but a mindset issue, Steve explains.

[28:26] - Steve talks about the marketing strategy at Empire Industries.

[29:00] - Brad talks specific numbers, using his company as an example. Steve then talks more about their marketing strategy, emphasizing the importance of keeping track of where money is being spent.

[32:17] - What’s one of the new, cool things Steve has done in marketing in the last few months?

[35:39] - Brad explores what constitutes good content, explaining that it’s not limited to a blog.

[36:25] - We hear about Steve’s company’s realtor referral programs.

[38:41] - Steve expands on dealing with brokers.

[40:42] - Steve is certified by the state of Texas to teach continuing education, and teaches around six classes. He touches on the things covered in these classes, then talks about the kind of momentum the classes generate.

[44:13] - How do you overcome some of the broker objections?

[47:54] - Steve explains that his strategy is to try to be top of mind, and goes into more depth about how to provide value and work with brokers.

[51:05] - Brad and Steve talk about the PM Grow Summit, where Steve will be speaking.

[52:52] - How can people reach Steve? He recommends the blog pages at Empire Industries.


Links and Resources:

Empire Industries

Empire Industries on Facebook

DISC Profiles

PM Grow Summit


Ben White


Feb 15, 2017

For this episode, I had the pleasure of interviewing Deniz Yusuf, an expert business development coach from Australia. Since transitioning from being a real estate agent himself, Deniz’s focus has been on training other property managers on the best practices for attracting and signing up new business.

In our conversation, Deniz covers a wide range of topics of interest to any property manager who wants to excel in the industry. We start off by briefly discussing his background, and he touches on how the customer service skills he learned by selling fruit and vegetables have remained valuable throughout his career.

We spend a fair amount of time talking about business development managers. Hiring a BDM can be a great way to prevent burnout (or reduce it, if you’ve already reached that stage). In addition to hiring the right person, you need to make sure you compensate him or her effectively, so we talk about compensation best practices and whether it’s a good idea to hire a realtor as a BDM.

Deniz also emphasizes the importance of implementing a CRM system early on. He explains why you need to know your closing ratio, which is a vital piece of information that far too few property managers track accurately. We also spend some time talking about a couple issues that may seem counterintuitive at first, including cases in which it can be a good idea to take on business in a below-average area, and why it’s a bad idea to list a property as “no pets allowed.”


You can find Deniz here:

On Facebook

On LinkedIn


Show Notes

[01:24] - Deniz’s background isn’t in real estate, but rather in selling fruit and vegetables. He walks us through how he got from that to his success in real estate.

[03:30] - Eventually, Denif burned out on what he was doing. He discusses this as well as his experiences with authorization forms.

[05:53] - Brad steps in to discuss the problems of trying to do everything yourself, and talks about his mistakes with his first hire.

[07:14] - A business shouldn’t be paying a business development management the same bonus for leads generated by the office as for those that the BDM personally sourced.

[07:51] - If Deniz could have given Brad advice at 100 homes, what would it be?

[08:42] - Deniz and Brad discuss the 20% of the company’s homes that were lost during 2016. Deniz then offers advice for compensating a BDM based on the homes they’ve brought in.

[10:29 - At Brad’s company, there are now two hires: one inside person and one outside person. He and Deniz discuss this in light of advice from Andrew Reece.

[12:32] - Deniz expands on the concept of a business health check that he had mentioned earlier.

[14:46] - The 10-10 rule is worth following when you’re in the field.

[16:18] - Getting your face out there has become more of an electronic thing these days.

[17:14] - What success stories have Deniz had with his business health check?

[19:49] - Deniz is partly looking at the implementation for a CRM during these health checks. He and Brad discuss the topic.

[20:19] - Knowing your closing ratio is very important, Deniz explains, yet many companies don’t know what theirs is.

[23:00] - What would Deniz do in terms of helping a new business development manager? Brad then discusses his initial training of his BDMs.

[26:04] - Do realtors make good BDMs?

[30:05] - Deniz talks about having properties in less-than-perfect areas with owners willing to put in the necessary work.

[31:18] - What are some of the key indicators at a listing appointment that you might be talking to a class-C landlord?

[32:59] - There have been a couple of occasions when Deniz has needed to turn around and walk away from a property.

[35:28] - Deniz talks about conversion rates again. His was 88%, and reached a high of 92% in one year. He then defines how he’s calculating these rates, and explains what an “opportunity” is in the sense he’s talking about.

[37:29] - Where can people reach Deniz?

[37:51] - Deniz talks us through the products he has for sale on his website.

Links and Resources:

Andrew Reece


Empire Industries

Pete Neubig

Greg Watson

Elizabeth Hood

BDMCoach Products


Feb 15, 2017

Welcome to the first episode of the Property Management Mastermind podcast!

Let me take a moment to introduce myself. I’m your host, Brad Larsen, the owner and real estate broker of one of the fastest-growing property management companies in the San Antonio, Texas region. I grew up in a small town in Iowa, and both of my parents were schoolteachers. Before I got involved in real estate, I was an army infantry officer.

The book Rich Dad Poor Dad completely changed my perspective on life, work, and careers, and it became clear that it was time for me to make a change. I decided to enter the real estate business, and started Larsen Properties from scratch in 2011. Today my company manages over 600 single-family homes, and it generated over $2 million in revenue in 2016.

I’ll be straight with you: despite these accomplishments, I’m not someone famous, and I know I still have more to learn. With this podcast, I’m here to facilitate conversations with some of the best property managers in the industry so you (and I!) can benefit from their experience, insight, and expertise.

This podcast is for property managers, by property managers. It’s your opportunity to learn about the latest industry buzz surrounding property management, as well as tips and strategies to improve your business. In this introductory episode, you’ll learn a few details about the techniques my company has used to achieve its fast growth and success. More than that, I’ll cover the intent of the show and the direction it will take in future episodes.

Thanks for joining me in this first episode, and I look forward to sharing real estate industry insights with you now and in the future!

Show Notes

[00:51] - We hear the goal of the show: to facilitate conversations with great property managers.

[01:29] - Brad introduces himself, explaining his background and how the book Rich Dad Poor Dad inspired him to change his life.

[02:54] - We learn more about the intent of the show.

[05:03] - Brad shares more about the company he runs to give context on himself as a host.

[08:04] - Some of the techniques Brad’s company uses to do so well include, for example, custom lease agreements and custom management agreements.

[09:07] - Brad’s company uses a three-tiered pricing model, he explains, then talks more about pricing using the example of how car buying has changed in recent years. He also discusses why he doesn’t use a discounting structure.

[12:10] - Videos and fee maximization are important topics that will be covered in future episodes. Acquisitions, mergers, partnerships, and selling companies will feature as well.

[13:46] - Brad talks about his other affiliation, as a cofounder of National Property Management Network (NPM). He also touches on the qualifications and backgrounds of the other cofounders.

[15:40] - The Tenant Liability Insurance product offered by NPM generated over $15,000 in additional revenue in 2016 after Brad implemented it in his company.

[16:24] - We hear a bit more about the upcoming interviews on the podcast.


Links and Resources:

Rich Dad Poor Dad

NARPM (National Association of Residential Property Managers)

Todd Breen

Virtually Incredible

NPM (National Property Management Network)

Tenant Liability Insurance